Difference between revisions of "IRDC 2012"

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  * Place: ''London, UK''
  * Place: ''London, UK''
  * Time: ''June 2nd-3rd, 2012''
  * Time: ''June 2nd-3rd, 2012''
  * Venue: ''Imperial College London''
  * Contact: ''[[User:Darren Grey|Darren Grey]]''
* Venue Contact: ''[[User:Darren Grey|Darren Grey]]''
  * Discussion: ''QuakeNet #rgrd, [http://roguetemple.com/forums/index.php?topic=2111.0 RogueTemple], [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.development RGRD], [http://www.facebook.com/events/117580921699055/ Facebook event]''
  * Discussion: ''QuakeNet #rgrd, [http://roguetemple.com/forums/index.php?topic=2111.0 RogueTemple], [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.development RGRD], [http://www.facebook.com/events/117580921699055/ Facebook event]''
* Twitter tag: ''[http://twitter.com/#!/search/realtime/irdc12 #IRDC12]''


=== Participants ===
=== Participants ===


* [[User:Darren Grey|Darren Grey]] darrenjohngrey@hotmail.com, +44 (0)770 929 3627
* [[User:Darren Grey|Darren Grey]], @dgrey0
* [[User:Ido|Ido Yehieli]] ido.yehieli@gmail.com, +43 (0)664 5585 708
* [[User:Ido|Ido Yehieli]]  
* [[User:kevglass|Kevin Glass]] kevin@cokeandcode.com, +44 (0)7794 453 8521
* [[User:alex may|Alex May]]  
* [[User:alex may|Alex May]] psychicteeth@gmail.com, +44 (0)7795 257 591
* Ed Key
* Mario Lassnig [?]
* DarkGod
* DarkGod [?]
* [[User:JeffLait|Jeff Lait]] jmlait snail gmail thing-that-oracle-owns com, $3.50 per minute so it better be important.
* [[User:JeffLait|Jeff Lait]] jmlait snail gmail thing-that-oracle-owns com, $3.50 per minute so it better be important.
* Risto Saarelma [?]
* [[User:Trogrd|Craig Turner]]  
* [[User:Trogrd|Craig Turner]] cratuki@gmail.com, +44 (0) 7714 620 963
* [[User:Bjorn|Björn Ritzl]]
* [[User:Bjorn|Björn Ritzl]] bjorn.ritzl@gmail.com, +46 (0)704 335333
* Hayden Scott-Baron [?]
* Radomir Dopieralski [?]
* Joris Pyl [?]
* Michael Cook [''Okay, I initially thought I couldn't come due to conference date clashes - the conference ends on June 1st. I *might* make it! I'll do my best.'']
* SRD
* SRD
* Andreas Dorn [?]
* Andreas Dorn
* [[User:st33d|Aaron Steed]] me@robotacid.com
* [[User:st33d|Aaron Steed]]  
* [[User:HappyPonyLand|Ulf ?ström]] ulf.astrom@gmail.com
* [[User:fdreger|Filip Dreger]]  
* [[User:fdreger|Filip Dreger]] fdreger@gmail.com
* [[User:flend|flend]]  
* [[User:flend|flend]] flend@compsoc.net
* [[User:Hamish|Thomas Whetnall]]  
* [[User:Hamish|Thomas Whetnall]] thomas.whetnall@gmail.com
* [[User:Janos|Janos Bornemisza]] janos@cheerful.com (tentative only - I'm a player and fascinated by how roguelikes are put together so the IRDC sounds awesome, will have to see closer to the time)
* [[User:Mort432|Connagh Muldoon]] connaghmuldoon@gmail.com.
* jpeg
* jpeg
* Daniel Slaney daniel@monkeybutter.co.uk, +44 (0) 788 182 0129 - game dev making a roguelike in my spare time
* Daniel Slaney - game dev making a roguelike in my spare time
* [[User:Bhaak|Patric Mueller]] bhaak@gmx.net +41 76 536 87 08 - [[UnNetHack]], [[NetHack-De]], and [http://junethack.rawrnix.com/ Junethack]
* [[User:Bhaak|Patric Mueller]] - [[UnNetHack]], [[NetHack-De]], and [http://junethack.rawrnix.com/ Junethack]
* [[User:randomnine|Ruari O'Sullivan]]
* [[User:randomnine|Ruari O'Sullivan]]
* [[User:atroche|Alistair R]] roche.a@gmail.com
* [[User:atroche|Alistair R]]  
* [[User:AdmiralJonB|Jonathan B]] admiraljonb@gmail.com
* Paul Jeffries paul AT vitruality.com
* Clare Boothby
* David Damerell
* Max Clayton Clowes
* Andrew Swan
* James S


=== Talks ===
=== Talks ===


* Darren Grey: Introduction and primer on the Roguelike Rennaisance
The talks are online at http://gamesofgrey.com/irdc2012/.
 
* Darren Grey: Introduction and primer on the Roguelike Renaissance
* Darren Grey: The Single Hit Point Model
* Darren Grey: The Single Hit Point Model
* Ido Yehieli: Why Darren is Wrong About Single Hit-points.
* Ido Yehieli: surprise!
* Björn Ritzl: I might have a talk about developing roguelikes for limited/mobile devices (not sure if it's of any interest or if I really want to yet)
* Björn Ritzl: I might have a talk about developing roguelikes for limited/mobile devices (not sure if it's of any interest or if I really want to yet)
* flend: Mobile phone roguelikes - UI, design and the Android landscape
* Jeff Lait: Porting POWDER: A brief history.
* Jeff Lait: Porting POWDER: A brief history.
* Michael Cook: If I'm around (second day more likely than first) I'd like to give a talk tentatively titled "Why The Games Industry Is Relying On You To Be As Insane As Possible"
* Michael Cook: If I'm around (second day more likely than first) I'd like to give a talk tentatively titled "Why The Games Industry Is Relying On You To Be As Insane As Possible"
* jpeg: I'd like to do another [http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/survey Stonesoup survey presentation]. Not all of it, but there are some results that might be interesting for roguelike development in general.
* jpeg: I'd like to do another [http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/survey Stonesoup survey presentation]. Not all of it, but there are some results that might be interesting for roguelike development in general.
* Connagh Muldoon: "Roguelikes as contrasted to the Commercial Games Industry": Not guaranteed I'll be doing it, but it's very likely. I would be writing it up now, but I've come down with a god awful cold.
* Connagh Muldoon: "Roguelikes as contrasted to the Commercial Games Industry": Unlikely I will be arriving to do this, money worries.
* Patric Mueller: [http://junethack.rawrnix.com/ "JuNetHack - The NetHack Cross-Variant Summer Tournament"]. Overview of Junethack's last year's(first) and this year's holding, including lessons learnt like why you need strong nerves and why your server should be D0S-resilient when dealing with NetHack players.
* Patric Mueller: [http://junethack.rawrnix.com/ "JuNetHack - The NetHack Cross-Variant Summer Tournament"]. Overview of Junethack's last year's(first) and this year's holding, including lessons learnt like why you need strong nerves and why your server should be D0S-resilient when dealing with NetHack players.
* Paul Jeffries: Real-life 'dungeon generation' - procedural generation in architectural design
* Nicolas Casalini: T-Engine, something about it, probably :)
* SRD: Dungeons I Have Known (on the variety of procedural maps in roguelikes)


Add your talk here if you wish to give a presentation.  Any subject is welcome.
Add your talk here if you wish to give a presentation.  Any subject is welcome.


=== Activities ===
=== Schedule ===
 
All agenda items are fluid.
 
'''Friday 1st June'''
* Meet up at William IV pub near Kensal Green station at 6:30pm - http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF-8&q=NW10+5JX


We will likely be doing a special recording or two for the Roguelike Radio podcastDetails to follow.
'''Saturday 2nd June'''
* Meet at 10am at the Library cafe.  A large group of nerds should be fairly obvious, but if in doubt look for The Sign.  Make sure you have my mobile number in case you're late or lost.  Only I can let people into the room we'll be using.
* 10.30 Introductory talk from Darren Grey, including a primer for open discussion on the Roguelike Renaissance
* Various presentations from 11:00 till around 4, with a break for lunch at some point.  Exact schedule is flexible and will be written up on a whiteboard.
* 4pm Recording of Roguelike Radio.  If not interested in taking part then I suggest playing some roguelikes!  Also a chance to just network or chat with others.


It's also been suggested we have a game coding jam - 2 hours on the Sunday maybe, in groups or individualsNon-coders can participate with ideas or hastily cobbled together graphics.
'''Sunday 3rd June'''
WARNING: Travel disruption/delays expected due to Queen's Diamond Jubilee events.  Please leave plenty of time for travel.
* Meet at 10am at Library cafe
* 10.30 till ~12: The Roguelike Showcase.  Developers have 10 minutes to showcase their latest work or developments (including unreleased stuff), with audience questions.  Timing will be strict.
* 12-1: Lunch
* 1 till 4pm: Any remaining presentations.
* 4pm Recording of Roguelike Radio.
 
'''Monday 4th June'''
(Not officially part of IRDC, but some indie dev stuff that folks may be interested in if they're around)
* 1-9pm Indie Games Expo in London - http://indiegamesexpo.info/  We've been offered a stand to show off roguelikes here if anyone's interestedI may also be giving a talk on artistic gameplay in roguelikes.
* There is a meet-up of Indie Devs at a pub in central London at around 7pm.  It's a good opportunity to meet some other devs and see some of their games.  More info: http://londonindies.com/?page_id=116  However the Expo may completely overshadow or subsume this meet.


=== Transportation ===
=== Transportation ===


London is the centre of the world!  Its five airports transport the largest number of passengers annually in all city airports combined.  Heathrow and Gatwick are easiest for transport to the city centre, but Luton and Stanstead are also options.  Those hunting a bargain may wish to check Birmingham Airport paired with a cheap 90 minute train ride to London Euston (trains are booked through http://thetrainline.com - much cheaper in advance).  Other England airports may also be options with cheap coaches from MegaBus or National Express.  Info on local travel is available at http://tfl.gov.uk - best to get a weekend pass or an Oyster card with 15 quid on it for the weekend.
London is the centre of the world!  Its five airports transport the largest number of passengers annually in all city airports combined.  http://www.skyscanner.net/ is handy for getting a good price deal (it doesn't check Ryanair though).  Heathrow and Gatwick are easiest for transport to the city centre, but Luton and Stanstead are also options.  Those hunting a bargain may wish to check Birmingham Airport paired with a cheap 90 minute train ride to London Euston (trains are booked through http://thetrainline.com - much cheaper in advance).  Other England airports may also be options with cheap coaches from MegaBus or National Express.  Info on local travel is available at http://tfl.gov.uk - best to get a weekend pass or an Oyster card with 15 quid on it for the weekend.


If you have further questions feel free to ask me directly - I'm happy to help.
If you have further questions feel free to ask me directly - I'm happy to help.
Line 73: Line 95:
There's plenty of places available in London for a range of budgets.  Google is your friend.  Transport is good all over, so any location would be fine, though sticking is zone 1 or 2 is cheaper for tube travel.  Hammersmith would be my best recommendation - lots of buses from there, or the quick tube option.  You can frequently find good deals on http://lastminute.co.uk or http://laterooms.com (and in spite of their names they're fine to use in advance).  Beware that a lot of places either don't have or charge extra for wireless.  Book as early as possible for the best prices, as London gets very pricey on short notice.
There's plenty of places available in London for a range of budgets.  Google is your friend.  Transport is good all over, so any location would be fine, though sticking is zone 1 or 2 is cheaper for tube travel.  Hammersmith would be my best recommendation - lots of buses from there, or the quick tube option.  You can frequently find good deals on http://lastminute.co.uk or http://laterooms.com (and in spite of their names they're fine to use in advance).  Beware that a lot of places either don't have or charge extra for wireless.  Book as early as possible for the best prices, as London gets very pricey on short notice.


Looking around, for somewhere cheap this sees sort of okay:
Looking around, for somewhere cheap this seems sort of okay:
http://www.laterooms.com/en/hotel-reservations/158205_euro-hotel-hammersmith-london.aspx
http://www.laterooms.com/en/hotel-reservations/158205_euro-hotel-hammersmith-london.aspx
(wifi, supposedly en suite, dodgy breakfast included, good location)
(wifi, supposedly en suite, dodgy breakfast included, good location)
Line 79: Line 101:


Post here with details of where you're staying or looking at staying - it may be helpful if many are staying in the same place.
Post here with details of where you're staying or looking at staying - it may be helpful if many are staying in the same place.
=== Venue ===
[http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/ Imperial College London] - South Kensington Campus, SW7 2AZ.  Pretty much exactly here:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?t=h&q=IRDC2012@51.499800,-0.175300&z=12
Meeting in room 301D of the Royal School of Mines building (no 12 on [http://workspace.imperial.ac.uk/energyfutureslab/public/South%20Kensington%20campus%20map.pdf this map]).  Access is through Prince Consort Road (the main entrance on Exhibition Road will be closed).  Due to security restrictions at weekends we're best meeting first in a nearby cafe and I can guide everyone to the meeting room.
[Do you mind specifying a cafe you have in mind so we know where to head? Cheers. [[User:Mort432|Mort432]] 19:44, 15 April 2012 (CEST)]
>[Not sure yet.  Might meet on the steps of the Albert Memorial.  Will decide closer to the time. - Darren]
Wifi: Those affiliated with universities will be able to log on to the Eduroam system.  For others I'll try and arrange for guest logins.
Nearest tube station is South Kensington on the District and Piccadilly lines.  Very central and easy to get to.  Buses from all parts of the city also stop nearby.
There's lots to do in the area for after the conference, including the (free) Natural History Museum and Museum of Science next door.  And it's London, so there's loads to do and see and places to eat in general.  You may want to make an extended weekend of it if you're interested in some serious tourism.  It's also a long bank holiday weekend for England (Monday and Tuesday off), which generally makes for a nice atmosphere.


=== Equipment & Supplies ===
=== Equipment & Supplies ===


* Projector will be set up in the room.
* Projector will be set up in the room.
* Camcorder: I'm happy to donate my little camcorder for the day. The quality isn't bad, but someone else will need some come up with a suitably sized SD card for it. [[User:Mort432|Mort432]] 16:10, 26 April 2012 (CEST)
* Camcorder: Still Required
* Tripod: My friend has a really nice tripod, I'll see if he'll lend us that. [[User:Mort432|Mort432]] 16:10, 26 April 2012 (CEST)
* Tripod: Still Required
* Food: Lots of places to go nearby.
* Food: Lots of places to go nearby.


Line 115: Line 120:
I live nearby and will be available all day Friday to Monday.  Happy to meet up at whatever time suits others.  - Darren Grey
I live nearby and will be available all day Friday to Monday.  Happy to meet up at whatever time suits others.  - Darren Grey


I'll be in London thursday to monday (arrive and leave in the afternoon). - Ulf ?ström
Me and the family will arrive on Thursday and leave on Monday. We will arrive and leave in the afternoon - Björn Ritzl


Me and the family will arrive on Thursday and leave on Monday. We will arrive and leave in the afternoon (same flight as Ulf?) - Björn Ritzl
I'll be in London from Friday to Sunday (to and from Berne and London City Airport, arriving with SX500 on 2012-06-01 07:50 and leaving with SX503 on 2012-06-03 18:30). --[[User:Bhaak|Patric Mueller]]
 
I'll be taking a train from Pencoed Train Station down to Kensington Station early on the Saturday, most likely. Unless I get my hands on the money for a B&B, I'll be leaving that night (unless someone local wouldn't mind me crashing on their floor?). Otherwise, I'll be leaving via train after the conference. [[User:Mort432|Mort432]] 16:13, 26 April 2012 (CEST)


=== Questions ===
=== Questions ===
Line 155: Line 158:
[[User:Mort432|Mort432]] 23:41, 5 March 2012 (CET)
[[User:Mort432|Mort432]] 23:41, 5 March 2012 (CET)


A: There is no strict division between the two. Talks can be about anything game or programming related that can be applied to roguelikes. There's no requirement to give a talk and it doesn't need to be very formal. At IRDC 2011 we had discussions ranging from the mechanics of specific games to general program architecture and programming practices. There were even people there that had never played a roguelike. For me it's entirely a social event, a chance to meet people I've been talking to online for years. There's no prestige in being a developer or "only" a player - if you enjoy roguelikes you "qualify" and should attend! /Ulf
A: There is no strict division between the two. Talks can be about anything game or programming related that can be applied to roguelikes. There's no requirement to give a talk and it doesn't need to be very formal. At IRDC 2011 we had discussions ranging from the mechanics of specific games to general program architecture and programming practices. There were even people there that had never played a roguelike. For me it's entirely a social event, a chance to meet people I've been talking to online for years. There's no prestige in being a developer or "only" a player - if you enjoy roguelikes you "qualify" and should attend!




Line 165: Line 168:


A: If someone brings a camcorder then it'll definitely happen, but right now I can't promise that. - Darren
A: If someone brings a camcorder then it'll definitely happen, but right now I can't promise that. - Darren
[[Category:Events]]

Latest revision as of 19:24, 25 November 2023

irdc2012-logo.png

The International Roguelike Development Conference - London 2012. A unique opportunity for roguelike developers and enthusiasts to network and discuss their genre in depth. Attendance is free and open to all. Add your name to the participants list if you plan to attend.

IRDC London 2012

* Place: London, UK
* Time: June 2nd-3rd, 2012
* Contact: Darren Grey
* Discussion: QuakeNet #rgrd, RogueTemple, RGRD, Facebook event
* Twitter tag: #IRDC12

Participants

Talks

The talks are online at http://gamesofgrey.com/irdc2012/.

  • Darren Grey: Introduction and primer on the Roguelike Renaissance
  • Darren Grey: The Single Hit Point Model
  • Ido Yehieli: surprise!
  • Björn Ritzl: I might have a talk about developing roguelikes for limited/mobile devices (not sure if it's of any interest or if I really want to yet)
  • flend: Mobile phone roguelikes - UI, design and the Android landscape
  • Jeff Lait: Porting POWDER: A brief history.
  • Michael Cook: If I'm around (second day more likely than first) I'd like to give a talk tentatively titled "Why The Games Industry Is Relying On You To Be As Insane As Possible"
  • jpeg: I'd like to do another Stonesoup survey presentation. Not all of it, but there are some results that might be interesting for roguelike development in general.
  • Connagh Muldoon: "Roguelikes as contrasted to the Commercial Games Industry": Unlikely I will be arriving to do this, money worries.
  • Patric Mueller: "JuNetHack - The NetHack Cross-Variant Summer Tournament". Overview of Junethack's last year's(first) and this year's holding, including lessons learnt like why you need strong nerves and why your server should be D0S-resilient when dealing with NetHack players.
  • Paul Jeffries: Real-life 'dungeon generation' - procedural generation in architectural design
  • Nicolas Casalini: T-Engine, something about it, probably :)
  • SRD: Dungeons I Have Known (on the variety of procedural maps in roguelikes)

Add your talk here if you wish to give a presentation. Any subject is welcome.

Schedule

All agenda items are fluid.

Friday 1st June

Saturday 2nd June

  • Meet at 10am at the Library cafe. A large group of nerds should be fairly obvious, but if in doubt look for The Sign. Make sure you have my mobile number in case you're late or lost. Only I can let people into the room we'll be using.
  • 10.30 Introductory talk from Darren Grey, including a primer for open discussion on the Roguelike Renaissance
  • Various presentations from 11:00 till around 4, with a break for lunch at some point. Exact schedule is flexible and will be written up on a whiteboard.
  • 4pm Recording of Roguelike Radio. If not interested in taking part then I suggest playing some roguelikes! Also a chance to just network or chat with others.

Sunday 3rd June WARNING: Travel disruption/delays expected due to Queen's Diamond Jubilee events. Please leave plenty of time for travel.

  • Meet at 10am at Library cafe
  • 10.30 till ~12: The Roguelike Showcase. Developers have 10 minutes to showcase their latest work or developments (including unreleased stuff), with audience questions. Timing will be strict.
  • 12-1: Lunch
  • 1 till 4pm: Any remaining presentations.
  • 4pm Recording of Roguelike Radio.

Monday 4th June (Not officially part of IRDC, but some indie dev stuff that folks may be interested in if they're around)

  • 1-9pm Indie Games Expo in London - http://indiegamesexpo.info/ We've been offered a stand to show off roguelikes here if anyone's interested. I may also be giving a talk on artistic gameplay in roguelikes.
  • There is a meet-up of Indie Devs at a pub in central London at around 7pm. It's a good opportunity to meet some other devs and see some of their games. More info: http://londonindies.com/?page_id=116 However the Expo may completely overshadow or subsume this meet.

Transportation

London is the centre of the world! Its five airports transport the largest number of passengers annually in all city airports combined. http://www.skyscanner.net/ is handy for getting a good price deal (it doesn't check Ryanair though). Heathrow and Gatwick are easiest for transport to the city centre, but Luton and Stanstead are also options. Those hunting a bargain may wish to check Birmingham Airport paired with a cheap 90 minute train ride to London Euston (trains are booked through http://thetrainline.com - much cheaper in advance). Other England airports may also be options with cheap coaches from MegaBus or National Express. Info on local travel is available at http://tfl.gov.uk - best to get a weekend pass or an Oyster card with 15 quid on it for the weekend.

If you have further questions feel free to ask me directly - I'm happy to help.

Accommodation

There's plenty of places available in London for a range of budgets. Google is your friend. Transport is good all over, so any location would be fine, though sticking is zone 1 or 2 is cheaper for tube travel. Hammersmith would be my best recommendation - lots of buses from there, or the quick tube option. You can frequently find good deals on http://lastminute.co.uk or http://laterooms.com (and in spite of their names they're fine to use in advance). Beware that a lot of places either don't have or charge extra for wireless. Book as early as possible for the best prices, as London gets very pricey on short notice.

Looking around, for somewhere cheap this seems sort of okay: http://www.laterooms.com/en/hotel-reservations/158205_euro-hotel-hammersmith-london.aspx (wifi, supposedly en suite, dodgy breakfast included, good location) Twinning up with others obviously saves cash for those so inclined.

Post here with details of where you're staying or looking at staying - it may be helpful if many are staying in the same place.

Equipment & Supplies

  • Projector will be set up in the room.
  • Camcorder: Still Required
  • Tripod: Still Required
  • Food: Lots of places to go nearby.

Refreshments required/desired: I'll arrange for refreshments for the room. Post here with any requests for specific drinks/snacks. - Darren Grey

Obviously we'll need some slime mold. And Pepsi. You've got to have Pepsi when rogueliking. Mort432 16:08, 26 April 2012 (CEST)

How we get there and back and where to meet up

Post your own info here and check back for updates.

I live nearby and will be available all day Friday to Monday. Happy to meet up at whatever time suits others. - Darren Grey

Me and the family will arrive on Thursday and leave on Monday. We will arrive and leave in the afternoon - Björn Ritzl

I'll be in London from Friday to Sunday (to and from Berne and London City Airport, arriving with SX500 on 2012-06-01 07:50 and leaving with SX503 on 2012-06-03 18:30). --Patric Mueller

Questions

Post questions here with your name.

What does the abbreviation IRDC stand for?

Mort432 20:35, 3 March 2012 (CET)

A: International Roguelike Development Conference. (Darren)


Can you give a brief description of the event for someone who has never attended?

Mort432 20:35, 3 March 2012 (CET)

A: It's a meet-up of roguelike developers to talk about development related topics. There are normally presentations on different subjects relating to development, as well as just generally hanging out and networking. Roguelike players are welcome to attend too. (Darren)


Is there a cost of admission?

Mort432 13:15, 4 March 2012 (CET)

A: Nope, it's free and open source! (Darren)

R: Sweet, free speech and free beer; I'll definitely be attending, hah. Thanks for all the replies.

Mort432 21:07, 4 March 2012 (CET)


Do talks have to be on development, or can they also be from a player perspective?

Mort432 23:41, 5 March 2012 (CET)

A: There is no strict division between the two. Talks can be about anything game or programming related that can be applied to roguelikes. There's no requirement to give a talk and it doesn't need to be very formal. At IRDC 2011 we had discussions ranging from the mechanics of specific games to general program architecture and programming practices. There were even people there that had never played a roguelike. For me it's entirely a social event, a chance to meet people I've been talking to online for years. There's no prestige in being a developer or "only" a player - if you enjoy roguelikes you "qualify" and should attend!


Q: What time do we start on Saturday? (Björn)

A: Probably 10am, but I'll confirm closer to the time. - Darren

Q: What are the chances of getting the video footage of (at least) talks uploaded so the wider community can enjoy them? [Sidenote: I'd volounteer for that but I'm not going to be there. And this: Please please pretty please?] magikmw

A: If someone brings a camcorder then it'll definitely happen, but right now I can't promise that. - Darren